Traitors in our Midst


Nothing is Sacred in ISKCON and the BBT Anymore.

The Sampradaya Sun website has logically and in extreme valid details come forward as one of the few devotee webpages to bravely stick it's neck out and expose the offences of the endless book changes by the BBT and Srila Prabhupada's disciples editing of his books and positively changing the original words of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, a Pure Devotee. This is the last straw!

OR so we thought... Now the BBT has taken the outrageous, illegal move of using HDG Srila Prabhupada's sacred BBT—Bhaktivedanta Swami Book Trust, to print mundane yoga/New Age books.

The BBT was founded by Srila Prabhupada for the sole purpose of protecting his 'original books'. That is not what has happened. Just the Opposite... Srila Prabhupada's books have in fact been altered to appeal to the so-called 'academic community' and to be more politically correct in the eyes of the non-devotees.

Also as a lame excuse, the BBT and GBC Body have used the excuse that Hayagriva das was a fallen devotee, to justify massive editing to Srila Prabhupada's 'original Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Macmillan Press.

The changes are made despite the overwhelming evidence that Srila Prabhupada was pleased by Hayagriva das's poetic service of editing, and moreover Srila Prabhupada approved of it 100% and used it and he never gave ANY instructions to change it radically in content: words… sentences... prose... It was a gem, with no flaws. A few small changes had to be corrected (very few), however in the 1970's Srila Prabhupada's order was clear:

"Do not change my books even with mistakes in them"! (Order to Radha Vallabha das, BBT Press, ISKCON Press)

This Instruction was not just for him, but for everyone in the BBT.

This brazen act of changing Prabhupada's books has seriously damaged love and trust in ISKCON and financially hurt the BBT and ISKCON, Temples, too. It has aliened tons of devotees, loyal to Srila Prabhupada's order, "DO NOT CHANGE MY BOOKS". Thus we saw the lawsuit a many years ago where the American BBT sued Hansadutta das for printing Prabhupada's original books (and lost). The outcome was NOT in the BBT's favour. That's how Krishna Books, Inc. was founded (by Krishna's arrangements). Yet the BBT and stubborn GBC Body still insists on trying to stop the printing and distribution of Srila Prabhupada's original books, despite the fact that they lost the court case and had to make a huge concession to allow Krishna Books to exist, and to print Prabhupada's original books and follow his instructions on NOT altering his books.

Even today as we speak, the BBT or BBTi in Mumbai is suing and aggressively stopping Krishna Books Inc. from printing and distributing Srila Prabhupada's original books and most notably... they threaten to destroy hundreds of beautiful sets of Srila Prabhupada's Original sets of Srimad Bhagavatam, in Bombay India!

This is the work of Demons in ISKCON! Krishna has allowed Krishna Books Inc. to exist to protect Srila Prabhupada's original books, as the BBT and GBC Body won't do that.

Once all our ISKCON Temple's thrived with temple devotees (ashrams) - NO MORE. Once the ISKCON Temples had plenty of Laxmi and didn't have to compromise for Indians or mundane New Age yoga for support - NO MORE. Once we saw devotees at airports and on the streets distributing Prabhupada's books - NO MORE. Once we saw devotees 24/7 on America's streets on Hari Nams - NO MORE.

So because of all the NO MORES in ISKCON, it's now caught up with ISKCON and the BBT. Thus BBT's revenue has massively dropped from the income it had, pre-1978. Pre book changes done... pre devotees leaving ISKCON by the truckload in America, etc. So now that we see how ISKCON declined in America, we see the BBT has declined too.

Now in an apparent desperate move to get revenue, they prostitute Srila Prabhupada's sacred BBT for printing mundane yoga, New Age Yoga books by non-devotees or quasi-devotees at best? This is the bottom of the barrel for the BBT and ISKCON. Printing non-Prabhupada books by the BBT is a huge offence to Srila Prabhupada. Worse, it's mundane yoga being promoted by the BBT. Insanity!

This one act says VOLUMES on Prabhupada's book changes... We have lost the real BBT. The book changes are illegal because the BBT or BBTi is now ILLEGAL TOO.

The BBT no longer represents the will of Srila Prabhupada to protect his books and book trust. It has betrayed HDG Srila Prabhupada and stabbed him in his back.

Question: What are we going to do about it? As the GBC and gurus look the other way or worse yet, promote this nonsense by BBT…

EXAMPLE: the BBT and Prabhupada's disciple STAB HIM IN THE BACK, promoting mundane yoga and impersonalism -- mayavadi preaching in ISKCON:

ISKCON Guru Promotes Mundane Yoga, Using BBT to Sell It:

"I learned many good insights from reading Inner Yoga. There are many, many yoga books out, and they often copy one another on what is discussed. After all, how much can you write about postures, breathing, mantras, and meditation when you come from more or less the same perspective? Inner Yoga brings us back to the original, spiritual dimension inherent in yoga, thus freeing us from the constraints of the perspective of yoga as exercise. Thus Inner Yoga is a unique contribution to the literature on yoga, enlivening one's asana practice with the heart of yoga. I hope this book finds many open-minded readers who are ready to explore the deeper spiritual dimensions of yoga.

Sacinandana Swami 
Traveling Monk and International Yoga Guru


Here is Srila Prabhupada's conversation with the GBC on the BBT. All the topics are relevant to this article. We can see what's gone off in the BBT and GBC. I have posted the entire lengthy conversation, one that's not known by many devotees. All devotees need to educate themselves on what Srila Prabhupada wanted for the BBT and for ISKCON, and understand that BOTH are in serious trouble now.

Please read all of it... We see that Prabhupada says, when we pay money to devotees its NO LONGER devotional service. Maintenance only is to be paid to devotees, etc.

Also, HDG Srila Prabhupada's instruction, "An Intimate Look, Conversation, Purpose of BBT.

Srila Prabhupāda: So that... First of all manage these things. Then you will, it will be included in the trustees. First of all show your capacity that you have managed these things very nicely, these two things. Why there should be complaint? How you can solve it? And why the temples should be maintained by collection of the BBT?

It is meant for printing and constructing temples. Why should (we) violate the purpose of the Trust? So first of all you manage these two things. Then, if you want, you can come. If the problem remains the same, then what is the use of increasing heads?"


Conversation with the GBC

March 27, 1975, Māyāpur

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...has done, and what everyone likes to do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Srila Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And then we will decide.

Jayatīrtha: That's nice. That's nice. So I can go on and read these...?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: I hope this isn't, er... Anyway, this is discussing the responsibilities of the GBC men in their zones. So we've already said to organize opening new temples, to appoint temple presidents for new temples, to be responsible for training all temple presidents and insuring spiritual standards. In the case of major deviation or resignation...

Srila Prabhupāda: Now, you... First of all, you finish one business. That Oath of Allegiance, so addition, alteration, you have made, complete, so that it may be typed?

Jayatīrtha: Satsvarūpa is...

Satsvarūpa: The only thing we've done is comment that Asnani's form hasn't specified on devotional principles.

Srila Prabhupāda: So make addition, alteration, I say. You amongst yourselves.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, add that one must follow four regulative prin...

Satsvarūpa: I can just add what Brahmānanda Mahārāja has.

Srila Prabhupāda: So do it amongst yourselves.

Jayatīrtha: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants to finalize.

Srila Prabhupāda: Discuss and do it, and make a final...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Oath of Allegiance is a legal document also, isn't it?

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's both a legal document and a spiritual document.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Everything we have is spiritual.

Srila Prabhupāda: We cannot avoid.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there must be legal also. That's the point.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: So somebody can read it?

Srila Prabhupāda: So next make this final.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I recommend that you put Brahmānanda Swami's reco..., on the top part, just...

Srila Prabhupāda: Hmmm? What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Brahmānanda Swami's proposals, top portion, we'll just add?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever you make, addition, alteration, make it copied.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And give it to be typed.

Srila Prabhupāda: Don't keep it. Finish one business.

Satsvarūpa: So it's just a matter of typing it, then?

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: We can't sign anything now. It's not any...

Srila Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, you are... You make some addition, alteration, to that. So make it complete. Then retype and then sign.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Everyone has agreed on what it should be.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Has everyone agreed?

Madhudviṣa: Well, why don't you read it? Why don't you compose it and then let us all see what it says.

Satsvarūpa: If I can read it out loud... Can I have the other...?

Brahmānanda: We're... Read what the proposal at the top portion...

Madhudviṣa: I give Satsvarūpa the whole thing in that...(?)

Satsvarūpa: All right. So the whole thing, then, would read like... This is a proposal that it should read like this: "I, spiritual name, as initiated disciple, and GBC secretary of His Divine Grace..."

Madhudviṣa: Both names should be there.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, prabhuji...

Madhudviṣa: Spiritual and, and, and legal name...

Atreya Ṛṣi: It should start with this.

Satsvarūpa: Well, it's not sure what it should start with. That's it.

Madhudviṣa: Both names should be there because a spiritual name is not legal.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact.

Jayatīrtha: Both names. Good.

Satsvarūpa: " GBC secretary of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder..."

Srila Prabhupāda: You... You... You make one copy, your copy, and make addition, alteration, corrections, and then copy the same thing for other men. That will be easier.

Satsvarūpa: All right.

Srila Prabhupāda: You... You just fill up one copy, as you are doing. So make addition, alteration, your name, your spiritual name, everything complete. So, following that copy, others will do. (?) Is that all right?

Atreya Ṛṣi: I recommend that we keep this one.

Srila Prabhupāda: Or you can make... Anyone, you can take.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In this shape.

Srila Prabhupāda: You, you can make addition, alteration, everything, and read it complete. Then take that proposal. That's all.

Jayatīrtha: So maybe, Atreya Ṛṣi, you can write out a final draft of it...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: ...including both things, and then you can read it to everyone.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Where's Brahmānanda Swami?

Jayatīrtha: Is that all right? Should we go on while he's writing?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: We can go on.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: The main purpose of these points is simply to try to put it down in writing what the GBC man can do himself, what things he requires—the whole group—what things he requires to consult with others on, in this way, so there won't be any question "What I can do, what I can't do." Is that all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: O.K. (Reading) "To insure that the highest standards, including spiritual temple worship, saṅkīrtana propaganda, recruitment of new devotees and life members, financial management and repayment of all debts are being adhered to."

Srila Prabhupāda: Why debts? Debts should be avoided. Not payment, but one should not make debt.

Jayatīrtha: But that... All temples... All the temples are in debt.

Srila Prabhupāda: Why? That's not... Debts are very wrong. (?)

Jayatīrtha: Either they owe BBT money or they owe bank money.

Srila Prabhupāda: That is not good. Debts should be... No debts. If any temple wants to make debt, it must be sanctioned by the GBC committee.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: Make it clear.

Jayatīrtha: That's nice.

Srila Prabhupāda: Not that he whimsically, the president, and put the Society into debts, unless it is sanctioned.

Jayatīrtha: That's included in here, more or, more or less.

Srila Prabhupāda: Make it clear: "They cannot create any debt."

Jayatīrtha: Just like to come to this festival has put everyone in debt.

Srila Prabhupāda: That is risky. That is risky.

Rūpānuga: Be very specific about it.

Jayatīrtha: Right. The next point is to insure...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Let me just make sure this is understood. Any, any debts that any temple has, is going to make, has to be approved by the GBC representative.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you say debt, do you mean a loan?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But...

Srila Prabhupāda: Loan is also debt.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But if they are buying BBT books, if... On the books it may seem debt, but in fact he should know that he's going to pay for it in the very near fu... That you do not consider need approval, do you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Jayatīrtha: The books are sold on consignment.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, and that is all right. That is all right.

Jayatīrtha: If they fall behind, then it becomes a debt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's different. Thirty days pay...

Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, as long as he meets the terms, it's not a debt. It's not a loan.

Srila Prabhupāda: That's it.

Atreya Ṛṣi: As soon as it goes over the term, it's unapproved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then a loan where you're paying on time, is that considered a debt?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. That's a loan. That has to be approved. That has to be, as much as possible, avoided. In other words, everything you're doing, more or less, on cash basis.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You don't depend on tomorrow.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Otherwise, sometimes a president may leave, leaving so many debts, so many loans, so many this, so many that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.

Jayatīrtha: That's right.

Srila Prabhupāda: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.

Jayatīrtha: Yeah, that, we'll... The next point is to insure that the proper criterion for recommending candidates for initiation be followed...

Srila Prabhupāda: That is being done.

Jayatīrtha: ...and to insure that the...

Srila Prabhupāda: The president recommends, or the GBC recommends.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any fixed amount of time that one has to be in the Society to get first, hari-nāma, initiated? Because I...

Srila Prabhupāda: That we have already fixed, six months to one year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six months to one year. And for brāhmaṇa initiation?

Rūpānuga: One year, you said, after that.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, within one year. That's all. If one, within one year, one does not become to the standard, then he's unfit.

Atreya Ṛṣi: The recommendation here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that...

Srila Prabhupāda: Generally by the president.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, that the president's recommendation is overseeing, is scrutinized, by GBC, so that when Your Divine Grace gets a recommendation, it's been, by someone else, it's been checked. Do you think it's unnecessary?

Srila Prabhupāda: It is.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Unnecessary. Jaya Prabhupāda.

Srila Prabhupāda: If one is not personally sincere, however he is checked...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, so this is unnecessary.

Srila Prabhupāda: ...then he's useless. Useless.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, an addition, "directly, " directly... You know we just have to put down what Prabhupāda... Directly president can...

Srila Prabhupāda: Generally, it is one year after. (?)

Atreya Ṛṣi: Put it down.

Jayatirtha: Right, right.

Srila Prabhupāda: At least not for... (?)

Atreya Ṛṣi: Jayatīrtha, put... "Directly goes..."

Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, after first initiation, one has to wait one year to get second initiation?

Srila Prabhupāda: Six months.

Rūpānuga: At least six months.

Jayatīrtha: Six months after first initiation. All right. So the next role for the GBC man is to act as the designated representative of Śrīla Prabhupāda to settle all philosophic, procedural disputes which may arise and are not settled at the temple level. In other words, any philosophic question a temple president can't ans...

Srila Prabhupāda: No, you... Eh?

Jayatīrtha: If there's some philosophic question and the temple president can't answer it, then the GBC...

Srila Prabhupāda: Then GBC should be consulted. And if the GBC cannot answer, then I'll answer.

Jayatīrtha: Right. Or, if there's some quarrel—one man doesn't like another man, and the temple president can't solve it-then...

Srila Prabhupāda: What is quarrel?

Jayatīrtha: ...the GBC man can solve it.

Srila Prabhupāda: There is no question of quarrel. Quarrel is material.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. But it is the Age of Quarrel.

Srila Prabhupāda: Quarrel is not good.

Jayatīrtha: The next point is to obtain reports from the temple presidents, financial reports, like this, to see that things are being looked up.

Srila Prabhupāda: The general report should be submitted at least monthly.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. So "to obtain all reports on a timely basis..."

Srila Prabhupāda: To the board of the GBC or to the individual, zonal GBC. Yes.

Jayatīrtha: We have kind of a system outlined in here, how reports can be done. It's a technical thing, but...

Srila Prabhupāda: But they have that everyone is chanting sixteen rounds, everyone is following the principles, "so much money received, so much money deposited in the bank."

Jayatīrtha: Right.

Srila Prabhupāda: "And this is the balance." And these are general (?) report. That's all.

Jayatīrtha: Right. Yeah, we have...

Srila Prabhupāda: The financial means what they have collected, what they have spent.

Jayatīrtha: Right.

Srila Prabhupāda: And general reporting: "Yes, everyone is chanting, " or "He is not chanting in spite of warning, " like that.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: This is very good.

Jayatīrtha: So we have some guidelines in here about that. So, so should I go on with this?

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: So then the next thing, besides having a zonal responsibility, a GBC man may have a functional responsibility, like we've already discussed.

Srila Prabhupāda: Functional, main functional responsibility is to go and see that the temple regular work is going on, the president is doing nicely, to check in this way. You can sit down in the class, in the..., and see how things are going on. That's it.

Jayatīrtha: That's it. Now, one point we've included that we haven't really done before is the idea of establishing committees and individual service...

Srila Prabhupāda: Committee, I shall appoint also, if there is any need. Amongst the GBC, I shall pick up some members and make a committee for a particular...

Jayatīrtha: For example, we put down that there may be a regional committee.

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: Just like in Europe, we have a regional committee for managing, I understand...

Srila Prabhupāda: What is that regional co...?

Jayatīrtha: Isn't it Bhagavān, Haṁsadūta...?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, I have said that Haṁsadūta, Bhagavān and Brahmānanda may...

Jayatīrtha: So it's a kind of regional committee for managing.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: So we similarly...

Srila Prabhupāda: That we can change also. For the time being, it is going on.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I think what Śrīla Prabhupāda has said to us is that if we have very close cooperation, the spirit of committee consultation always exists...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Like if Bhagavān dāsa is in U.S., then Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and Rūpānuga Prabhu will consult with him, like they always consult with each other.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: They should always... And this spirit should go on amongst the twelve. Or if I'm in Tehran, and if there is a financial matter...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't bring politics. Then it will be ruined.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. The spirit should be that you write me and ask me, and I will give you all the service that I can. This should come in us.

Jayatīrtha: For example, in the United States...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Not so much, necessarily, committees and formal...

Srila Prabhupāda: So if a committee is necessary, it should be decided, first stage, decided by the GBC, and I'll give final sanction.

Jayatīrtha: For example, one committee that I would propose is in the United States, since we share so many similar problems and so many problems overlap...

Srila Prabhupāda: So you... No, the GBC is already there. But that is... Committee is there, the whole committee. But for any special purpose, if committee is required...

Jayatīrtha: Another example of a kind of committee would be some projects. Say...

Srila Prabhupāda: Project will be decided by the GBC.

Jayatīrtha: Say, the Gurukula, for example...

Srila Prabhupāda: Now I have elected this committee in Europe because the German trouble is going on. When the German trouble is over, there is no need of committee. It is only for this particular purpose because there we have to defend court, we have to see... So two, three heads, not one head. One head may be puzzled. Committee means for special purposes. Otherwise, the standing committee, GBC, is already there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just as a question...

Srila Prabhupāda: Just like I appointed the committee to investigate...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bali Mardana.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. So that committee is not standing. Yet similarly, a committee may be formed for some special circumstances, but otherwise the GBC committee is sufficient.

Jayatīrtha: The main point about that is that the GBC, we all meet together once a year...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. And form all, what is to be discussed, what you are going to do, future. Just like you can discuss the German affairs, and find out how to defend ourselves. Of course, it is in the hands of the lawyer. Still, we can suggest...

Jayatīrtha: Take, for another example, there's the ISKCON Food Relief Program. Now, last year we discussed this, but no one was given any specific responsibility for it, and nothing really has been... Some money has been collected, but nothing major has been done. My idea would be that if there were a committee, say, of two, three men formed who would conjointly discuss and work on these projects, such as this ISKCON Food Relief, then more would get done.

Haṁsadūta: No, I think it's entirely an individual...

Srila Prabhupāda: I think this Oath of Allegiance should be signed by the presidents also.

Jayatīrtha: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only the GBC, but the president.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I just want to ask a question. We're in a... This meeting right now is concerning ISKCON and the GBC, but are we going to have some kind of meeting regarding the BBT? Because that's a very pressing matter also. Is that going to come in in these discussions, or are we going to have a separate meeting?

Srila Prabhupāda: The BBT I am conducting personally.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you mentioned in Miami... This is the reason I'm bringing it up. In Miami we mentioned that we would be discussing at Māyāpur. Something, you know, should be done so that...

Srila Prabhupāda: What is that something? The first something is that everyone is complaining that they are not getting books. You just, first of all, do it, how to stop these complaints.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We got to get the books (indistinct)

Jayatīrtha: In India?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: This is the problem.

Srila Prabhupāda: The India is membership, and the members, if they are dissatisfied, then? This is not good. So find out the way how this complaint can be solved.

Haṁsadūta: So does it mean that the BBT should take charge of the Life Membership program or to see that they're supplied the books?

Srila Prabhupāda: No. Life Membership... Suppose you make one Life, he has to be supplied books.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: So fifty percent goes to the...

Haṁsadūta: Book Fund.

Srila Prabhupāda: That is stated in the BBT. That is the main purpose, that fifty percent must go...

Haṁsadūta: For printing. Fifty percent for printing, fifty percent for building.

Srila Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is the main purpose.

Brahmānanda: But the difficulty is that in India there's no other source of income besides the Life Membership. How they will maintain?

Srila Prabhupāda: What is the...? That you discuss.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, a meeting. (?)

Srila Prabhupāda: That you discuss, how these sources, how their maintenance should be... But BBT is already declared. It is meant for two purposes. Now you find out how the sources. That is business of GBC.

Jayatīrtha: That we can discuss afterwards?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Srila Prabhupāda: The BBT, that, it should be: how the complaints should be stopped, and if they have no other income, then how things should be managed. That is... GBC should discuss.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, BBT is not outside ISKCON. BBT is part of ISKCON, and GBC is in charge of all ISKCON. But in this case, BBT, you have your personal attention, so since you are the supreme authority in ISKCON, you will...

Srila Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that sometimes before, Jayatīrtha suggested that if the ISKCON goes to liquidation, then the BBT also will be affected.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is only a legal matter.

Srila Prabhupāda: Legal matter. So I want to protect BBT.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Legally, you will want. But, in fact, GBC is also concerned...

Srila Prabhupāda: That you are concerned. You do this—now how to stop these complaints.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: Now they want to maintain from the GBC income. How this can be avoided, you consider.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It is not something we forget because it's BBT.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. But these are the important problems, that the, here in India, the members are complaining. Sometimes they are sending complaining to me. So the first business is how to, how the collection from the membership is being dispersed, how the money is being dispersed. Suppose I... He is a member. I take him, 222. Then how the money is being sent? So you see first of all that...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a GBC matter.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. This is GBC matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I would like to ask a question. Just like in the... Now, this is one point to consider. Now, another point is, which we have put off until this meeting, especially to be considered in this meeting, is the moving of the Press. The moving of ISKCON Press. Is that...

Srila Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that a GBC matter or BBT matter?

Srila Prabhupāda: No. It is GBC, er, yeah, GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The GBC.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. I want to see, as the chairman of the BBT, that fifty percent is spent on printing and fifty percent is for constructing temples. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And who sees to that? The GBC?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The GBC.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means, practically speaking, the management... The BBT is separate from ISKCON for legal purposes, but the management of it is done by the GBC.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.

Atreya Ṛṣi: However, at the present, Prabhupāda himself is heading this management.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's heading every management.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But in this particular case he's heading it very particularly. This is something...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Because it's very sensitive issue. It doesn't mean separate.

Rūpānuga: But now, we discussed this... We discussed this before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You said that you didn't... You wanted to make some more BBT members.

Srila Prabhupāda: If I require, I can make.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The reason I'm bringing this up is because, heretofore, the BBT has been managed by one or two trustees, and the point is that maybe it is best that it be managed by the GBC.

Srila Prabhupāda: So that... First of all manage these things. Then you will, it will be included in the trustees. First of all show your capacity that you have managed these things very nicely, these two things. Why there should be complaint? How you can solve it? And why the temples should be maintained by collection of the BBT? It is meant for printing and constructing temples. Why should (we) violate the purpose of the Trust? So first of all you manage these two things. Then, if you want, you can come. If the problem remains the same, then what is the use of increasing heads?

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is obvious is that Prabhupāda's interference has always come because we have not done our jobs right.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He would very much like to...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real purpose.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He would... As soon as we show that we can...

Haṁsadūta: Work together.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Work together and manage nicely, he wants to.

Srila Prabhupāda: Now, so far the... Just like in Germany. They unnecessarily take the money while there is creditor, printer. There was no need of keeping money. Go on paying them. That was my policy. I instructed Karandhara that whenever there is collection, go to pay. That arrangement I made with Dai Nippon, that "I shall go on paying. You don't ask me." So he never asked me. You know that.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: As soon as there is collection, I paid him: "And you go on printing these books." This should be the policy.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is very important that we understand. This is not common in the karmī world, that Śrīla Prabhupāda does not like credit or playing with money and saving it or something... You have a debt; you pay it; you don't create debt. Everything is just very honest and very flowing. This I have to learn myself because this is not the way the business world is, although I do a lot of business. And we all have to see that this policy is followed.

Srila Prabhupāda: This complaint from the members is not at all good. If somebody becomes envious, he can file a suit that "These men have collected money from me, eh, but not supplied books."

Jayatīrtha: They sign a document we also sign.

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: We sign one document when they become a member.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: And they sign also. It's a contract.

Srila Prabhupāda: So this is the first thing, that the GBC maintains here. Immediately the collection is there—fifty percent goes to the BBT account, and fifty percent goes to the printer.

Atreya Ṛṣi: May I recommend, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that one GBC member, plus GBC India be appointed to look very carefully into this whole si...

Srila Prabhupāda: Be appointed. Do this. Be appointed.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. We will.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, do this.

Atreya Ṛṣi: To investigate this whole...

Srila Prabhupāda: Why...? Just stop this complaint.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This whole membership program.

Srila Prabhupāda: I am giving you the appointment. Do it.

Haṁsadūta: We can consult with him later.

Jayatīrtha: So we'll discuss it and try to find out the details...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Put it in the agenda, this membership plan, immediately.

Jayatīrtha: ...later on

Srila Prabhupāda: These complaints are not at all good. They have become very serious. Complaint must be stopped. Why they are...? Now print cheap edition here and give them books. Sell also.

Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse of being cheating.

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse us of cheating them.

Srila Prabhupāda: It is not good at all. Why there is complaint?

Jagadīśa: So make the agenda.

Jayatīrtha: I have nine points on the agenda so far.

Jagadīśa: What is it?

Jayatīrtha: The...

Srila Prabhupāda: Just like Śyāmasundara. He was appointed the BBT member. And what he is doing?

Jayatīrtha: There's been a very high attrition rate on GBC...

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: There's been a very high attrition rate on BBT trustees.

Srila Prabhupāda: So this thing should be arranged first of all. Then...

Jayatīrtha: So the... There are a number of points that require discussion...

Srila Prabhupāda: So discuss...

Jayatīrtha: I don't know, necessarily, that it's your desire to have them discussed in your presence or, for example...

Srila Prabhupāda: No, I don't want, but if you want, you can...

Jayatīrtha: Well, we always love to have your association, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Rūpānuga: What about if you, at least, can approve the agenda?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, that's nice.

Rūpānuga: If you can give us your blessings...

Srila Prabhupāda: That you discuss, some of the agenda.

Jayatīrtha: The agenda that we've created so far is... The first point on the agenda is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Srila Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. You said that that should be our first point.

Srila Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious movement means... It is very practical. Because our consciousness is now polluted... Just like water. Water, originally, crystal clear water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes dirty, muddy. So our consciousness-originally clear, Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Kṛṣṇa is my eternal master. I am eternal servant." This is real consciousness. Now, since we have come into this material world, we have made, instead of Kṛṣṇa, "My wife is my master, my society is my master, my country is my master, my political leader is my master, " so many. So the Kṛṣṇaconsciousness means to purify the dirty things and then... So, to purify this, CaitanyaMahāprabhu has recommended, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleaning the mirror of consciousness, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is only way.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya. So that's the first point.

Srila Prabhupāda: That is the first point.

Jayatīrtha: And the next point ...

Srila Prabhupāda: We should know that our consciousness is now polluted. The... Exactly like this: Clear water falls down from the sky, and as soon as come in contact with the ground, it becomes muddy. You can take the water again and filter, and then again clear. Again crystal clear.

Jayatīrtha: By nature water is clear.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: And sometimes it can become polluted.

Srila Prabhupāda: And the whole devotional service means ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is the recommendation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, cleansing the dirty-politically, socially, communally, and internationally, nationally... In this way, it is all contaminated. So that, that is called upādhi, unnecessary. Just like water. You bring the colored water. That is contamination, not crystal. So these are different colors. So you have to strain the water from different colors. Then that is Kṛṣṇaconsciousness. Consciousness is already there. So instead of thinking Kṛṣṇa, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's, " I am thinking, "I am my family's. I am my, my cat's, my dog's, my nation's, my community's..." This thinking is opposite Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when you simply think that "I am Kṛṣṇa's, " that's all. That is all.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Jayatīrtha: So, so the agenda...

Srila Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Devotees: Jaya.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Just applicable to myself, it's very easy to think that "Now I am in a position of responsibility. I may be most advanced." But what your instruction is that I always think that this position of responsibility requires that I become pure, so I have to be very, very careful. I am not most advanced. I have to...

Srila Prabhupāda: That purity process is chanting.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I have to chant very carefully...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...and very seriously.

Srila Prabhupāda: Offenseless.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Not that I'm already advanced.

Srila Prabhupāda: Offenseless chanting, that will purify. That is the easiest process, given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto-da...(?) He first of all recommends cleansing the heart. And as soon as your heart is cleansed, then you become immediately purified. This is the way. So be always engaged, either in chanting or reading or preaching. Then it will be clarified.

Rūpānuga: It is actually a very easy process.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the easiest process. There is no secondary process. Chanting. And it is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the authority, paramvijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So many things will happen.

ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
śreyaḥ-kairava candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtasvādanaṁ
(sarvātma-snapanaṁ) paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam
[Cc. Antya 20.12]

This is His recommendation. We haven't got to invent something. It is there already. You do it.

Jayatīrtha: So the agenda for the GBC meeting to decide on... First of all, Jagadīśahas made one proposal for financing Gurukula, if it has to be discussed.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm? Financing?

Jayatīrtha: Gurukula is having some serious financial difficulties. So Jagadīśa has made a proposal, which we'll discuss.

Srila Prabhupāda: So everyone's son is there, all devotees' son. So from every center some contribution should be given to the Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya. That was my proposal. That becomes a kind of tax.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In a sense, it's like a school tax.

Srila Prabhupāda: But, at the same time, it should be examined how Gurukula is spending money.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Jagadīśa has made a complete report.

Srila Prabhupāda: Not unnecessarily spending. That is the duty of the GBC.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, about this tax, about this money to be taken from each temple. Gurukula is one of the projects. For example, there may be another project...

Srila Prabhupāda: What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...that Your Divine Grace and group, when you travel, there needs to be also... Every temple should contribute to that as well.

Srila Prabhupāda: Well, if every temple cannot contribute, I shall manage from the BBTfund. That is not a problem.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You want...? I am using that merely as a...

Srila Prabhupāda: And if you can pay, it is all right. If there is deficit, BBT will pay. You don't bother.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But in this Gurukula project, Śrīla Prabhupāda, temples are having difficulty in paying their debts to BBT already. I don't think they will respond, respond. On one hand, BBT, Ramesvara Prabhu is recommending that we reduce the cost of books, and on the other hand, it's being recommended that the tax for Gurukula be collected.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no, cost of book... Cost of books?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Not cost. Price of books.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, price of...

Srila Prabhupāda: Cost of selling price.

Jayatīrtha: That we discussed with you in Dallas, Ramesvara and I.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no need. There is no need.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So what I was...

Srila Prabhupāda: It is not a fact that by reducing the price you'll sell more.

Jayatīrtha: No, no. Not reducing the price to the public. Reducing the cost to the temple, so the temple can make more profit.

Srila Prabhupāda: That you can do.

Jayatīrtha: That we discussed with you in Dallas.

Atreya Ṛṣi: What I am recommending is that, instead of reducing the charge to the temple and then collecting a separate tax, do not reduce the charge to the temple. Whatever reduction you were going to give, give that reduction to Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: Then that means that BBT is paying.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, BBT is not paying. You're going to give them a reduction. Don't give it to them...

Madhudviṣa: That means giving them unlimited money.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: That means giving them unlimited money.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No. Well, for example, let's say I...

Madhudviṣa: If I distribute more books, then Gurukula gets more money. Then... They don't need all that money.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no. This... This is... Contribution is better for you.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Separate contribution.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: Does that, does that... What about those temples that don't have any children there in Gurukula. Because it seems that the problem is not just that... There are people besides devotees who are not paying...

Srila Prabhupāda: No, they can give.(?)

Jagadīśa: That's part of the proposal. Why not discuss in relationship to the proposal.

Jayatīrtha: Right. We have the whole proposal. Everyone has a copy, I think. So we can discuss that. The main point, I'm just saying now, is to read through the agenda and see if Prabhupāda approves that we're talking about these things, and then..., because these things are so detailed, and we have some proposals in writing. We can discuss them more. Anyway, so one proposal is Gurukula finance. Another proposal is Brahmānanda's made some proposals about Africa, specifically manpower to be sent to Africa. Another proposal... another thing is to discuss the BBT, BBT loans, moving of the Press, several points about BBT, lowering of the prices, these things...

Srila Prabhupāda: So what is the advantage of moving the Press?

Jayatīrtha: That Ramesvara should be here to say.

Srila Prabhupāda: Call (?) Ramesvara. If you be..., all GBC agrees, then you do that.

Jayatīrtha: All right. So if we have a separate meeting, and Ramesvara presents his proposals nicely, and everyone agrees, then we can...

Srila Prabhupāda: You consider, and then you decide.

Jayatīrtha: So that's one thing to discuss. Another thing to discuss is Spiritual Sky.

Madhudviṣa: Don't you think that there should be some representatives from the Press at that meeting too?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, they'll be there.

Srila Prabhupāda: Now, the Spiritual Sky... I have heard that you are paying two thousand rupees, er, two thousand dollars, per month to the accountant, and one thousand dollars to Karandhara.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, about that.

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: Seventeen hundred dollars a month to the accountant, full-time accountant. That is the average price in America for a first-class accountant. Otherwise, we have to hire, get Atreya Ṛṣi to come and do it.

Srila Prabhupāda: And Karandhara is taking one thousand dollars?

Jayatīrtha: Well, here's the problem, that because it is a business, people must, that work there, have to get regular salary and pay taxes. Otherwise we can get in a lot of trouble. We can get in a lot of trouble. Maybe Bhagavān may know.

Bhagavān: Well, I have the same thing in France. Spiritual Sky is a legal business. That means you have to legally employ people. But I employ the temple people and just take their salary.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's all right.

Bhagavān: Do you take Karandhara's salary?

Jayatīrtha: No, that's a different thing. Anyway, let me finish the point. The point is that legal salary has to be paid, and then taxes have to paid from that. So for example, Karandhara's salary is not really a good example because he doesn't give fifty percent. But one thousand dollars is the salary.

Bhagavān: Minimum? Minimum salary?

Srila Prabhupāda: No.

Jayatīrtha: That eight hundred, two hundred goes for taxes...

Srila Prabhupāda: No our, our... That was the... Formerly, who was managing?

Jayatīrtha: Formerly, I was managing.

Srila Prabhupāda: So you were also taking one thousand?

Jayatīrtha: I was... But that was... But I was... I wasn't taking anything. But that was...

Srila Prabhupāda: Then? How...? Why he is taking?

Jayatīrtha: Because we were working illegally.

Haṁsadūta: The thing is the whole situation has deteriorated into a karmī business, and no one's making any profit on it.

Jayatīrtha: Well, now, let's...

Haṁsadūta: It's just a headache.

Jayatīrtha: That is a... That is an unschooled statement, an uneducated statement. It's not a...

Haṁsadūta: No, that's not a fact. Where is the advantage?

Jayatīrtha: Anyway, let me finish... That's why I don't want to discuss this in front of Prabhupāda, because of argument. Anyway, the next point is that, as far as Karandhara's salary is concerned...

Srila Prabhupāda: No, the Spiritual Sky was contemplated that our gṛhastha bhaktasmay be employed...

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, but they're not employed anymore.

Jayatīrtha: That's not true.

Srila Prabhupāda: And the bare necessities should be paid.

Jayatīrtha: Right. Well, generally we have about seventeen, eighteen gṛhasthasemployed in Los Angeles, and they get much smaller salary, and they, for the most part, they're giving everything over subsistence to the temple as donation. They take out minimum subsistence...

Srila Prabhupāda: But Karandhara is not giving anything.

Jayatīrtha: Well, his point is... As you know, he made that unauthorized loan from BBT when he left, for five thousand dollars. And he has to pay it back at three hundred dollars per month. So after he makes...

Srila Prabhupāda: Unauthorized loan?

Jayatīrtha: When he left last year, he took loan for five thousand dollars, and he is repaying at three hundred dollars per month. So after taxes, he gets eight hundred dollars. Three hundred dollars goes to BBT. That's five hundred. Now, with the balance, he supports his wife and children, and his wife is giving donations for Deities and so on. So he is not actually...

Srila Prabhupāda: No, that you discuss whether he is... Otherwise I can give you a very first-class man, but he won't charge anything.

Jayatīrtha: Who is that?

Srila Prabhupāda: That I'll not disclose. (laughter) You give him simply, his wife and him, a shelter. He's Indian, I can say.

Jayatīrtha: Oh.

Srila Prabhupāda: And he is qualified man. He can do. Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Jayatīrtha: But he's not a devotee.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Karandhara's management is—I mean I'm just looking at it from another view—is worth more than two thousand dollars. So if he is getting only one...

Srila Prabhupāda: But your management is not worth five thousand dollars?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Mine is worth nothing.

Srila Prabhupāda: Then why you are giving free service? Anyone, all of my disciples, they are qualified. Their service is worth more than any thousands of... Yes. So why you are maintaining Karandhara? All of them, they are giving free service. But they are all worthy to take salary, two thousand, three thousand, five thousand...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Karandhara is only, what he's getting is only enough for his maintenance.

Srila Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Atreya Ṛṣi: We are being maintained.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no. Maintenance... Here, everyone can earn money and maintain him, but here this expense should be sacrifice. The essential is service.

Haṁsadūta: It's his service...

Srila Prabhupāda: Service, yes.

Haṁsadūta: It was started for that reason.

Srila Prabhupāda: If we take payment, that is not service. That is business. That is business.

Jayatīrtha: It is, no doubt, a fact that Karandhara is not giving his full, is giving his full life as service. That is a fact. It may be taken...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. Our organization is to give service.

Haṁsadūta: And then another point in this connection is that when I was in Los Angeles last time, all the people that worked for Spiritual Sky, they were, they were starting to fall away because of Karandhara's karmic attitude...

Jayatīrtha: That's...

Srila Prabhupāda: So this point you discuss.

Jayatīrtha: (to

Haṁsadūta:) That problem we'll discuss, and I'll discuss it with you.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are also two reports we don't have here, and we should read those before... One is Karandhara's report, and one is Gopāla KṛṣṇaPrabhu's report, who have investigated this.

Jagadīśa: He's told us to make his report.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Hm? Well, yes, that we have not heard yet. So we should hear and read the...

Srila Prabhupāda: All have contact. (?)

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...and then discuss this point.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your GBC.

Jayatīrtha: All right. So that we'll discuss. The other thing we'll discuss is ISKCON Food Relief. And we'll also discuss the complaints about books in India.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the main...

Jayatīrtha: So these things we can discuss.

Srila Prabhupāda: these complaints can be stopped.

Atreya Ṛṣi: The pledge. Should I read the pledge? I have written it.

Haṁsadūta: What about the situation in Germany?

Jayatīrtha: All right, situation in Germany we'll also discuss.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Put the pledge on the agenda, Prabhu.

Jayatīrtha: You want to read that pledge?

Atreya Ṛṣi: You want me to read it, Prabhu?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Jayatīrtha: I think so.

Srila Prabhupāda: Everyone may hear.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I... The same pledge, that the Indian gentleman has written, where it says, "Prabhupāda, I, Mr. So and So, karmī name, initiated name in parenthesis, date of birth, at present residing at, of certain nationality, do hereby solemnly affirm, declare and state as under as follows: I state I have been elected or nominated a member of Governing Body Commission, under the recommendation of my GuruMahārāja, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder and ācārya of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement..."

Rūpānuga: Supreme Authority.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Shall I...

Satsvarūpa: Yes, Prabhupāda wanted it...

Rūpānuga: Ācārya and supreme authority.

Atreya Ṛṣi: It's down... There as well?

Jayatīrtha: There as well.

Rūpānuga: Everywhere. Everywhere.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for KṛṣṇaConsciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which, " and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."

Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: The four regulative principles should be stated.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.

Madhudviṣa: We know it, but does someone else know it?

Srila Prabhupāda: Is it necessary to mention?

Rūpānuga: It's a legal document also.

Bhagavān: Yeah, it should be mentioned.

Srila Prabhupāda: Mentioned? Mention.

Rūpānuga: If it was in parentheses, it would be better for a legal document.

Jayatīrtha: That's not a legal document.

Rūpānuga: It's a legal document. This is a legal document.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "And chanting sixteen rounds very seriously."

Madhudviṣa: Daily.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Daily."

Madhudviṣa: At least.

Brahmānanda: And free from the offenses.

Haṁsadūta: We have to take some...

Jayatīrtha: Who's chanting free from the offenses?

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no, don't...

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Very seriously" is all I can say.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, do that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I cannot say "free of offenses." Because...

Srila Prabhupāda: "Seriously" means without offense.

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...I am degraded. "Very seriously, or may be given to me from time to time directly, these directions, by my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja, or through his books, or..." In other words, direction given, instruction given, directly by him or through his...

Srila Prabhupāda: Better directly.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No "His books"?

Srila Prabhupāda: No.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Not necessary.

Srila Prabhupāda: Because I may give direction according to the time.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Or" means both.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm?

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Or" can mean... All right. "Or through his commissioners..."(?)

Srila Prabhupāda: Direct, direct instruction is important. Just like Kṛṣṇa. In the books He has given many instructions, but then He says, sarva-dharmān parityaja. If one says that "You gave me instruction before like this. How can I give up this?" so that is not important. The direct instruction is important.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "To me from time to time directly by my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja, or through his commissioner..."

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Or through his authorized person or persons, and I shall obey faithfully all such instructions and directions which shall be, which shall be binding on me, and that I will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of my Guru Mahārāja, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, and the managing body commission and, or, any other body appointed by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda working under the said International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. And I shall faithfully discharge the duty upon which I am about to enter or I have already appointed to that effect." Now this is an addition. "I further pledge that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami is the only source of authority, represented by his instructions and books, and I shall follow his instructions, I shall follow the instructions of the books..."

Madhudviṣa: Only these books.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Only these books" Rather than "I will not follow any other book."

Srila Prabhupāda: No, why you'll put? (laughs) This is...?

Atreya Ṛṣi: It's not...?

Srila Prabhupāda: This is required?

Rūpānuga: You mean the part about the books, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rūpānuga: You mean the part about the books?

Haṁsadūta: It's already said that you're his direct instructions.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is to protect, like, if somebody chanting sixteen rounds...

Haṁsadūta: It's redundant.

Madhudviṣa: Well, I thought if someone was chanting sixteen rounds and following the principles and reading someone else's books, like Siddha-svarūpa's people...

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, but we've just already read one portion where it says that we will follow direct instructions of Prabhupāda.

Srila Prabhupāda: That's it.

Haṁsadūta: So again he's repeating it.

Srila Prabhupāda: Instruction, follow that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So then it's not necessary about this "only" sort part of...(?)

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: What if there is no direct instruction?

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. I don't think that part is anymore important.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "I further state that I am holding monies and movable and immovable..."

Srila Prabhupāda: No, why he's...? He's not holding money, GBC.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So this I'll take out.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, GBC, practically does not hold any money.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No.

Srila Prabhupāda: Then why you...?

Haṁsadūta: You can say, "Any monies or properties under my direction..."

Jayatīrtha: That's what it should say.

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?

Haṁsadūta: Under, under his direction. Any monies or properties under his direction.

Atreya Ṛṣi: That would be a separate oath. That would be a separate thing, Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: Maybe that should just be left out because if we're going to have some legal document like an umbrella, then that will take care of all those things.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, that should be in the pledge, in the agenda.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no, GBC... Does GBC members deal with money?

Haṁsadūta: No, he does not personally. He doesn't have anything personal.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean...

Brahmānanda: But he puts his signature.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, no. As GBC, we do not deal with money. In other words, if you're dealing with money, it's the temple president.

Srila Prabhupāda: The GB...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Not as...

Srila Prabhupāda: The GBC should see that it is being done properly. Why he should...?

Haṁsadūta: But sometimes it...

Srila Prabhupāda: ...involve himself in the...

Rūpānuga: Well, for example, in New York...

Srila Prabhupāda: ...internal management?

Rūpānuga: Well, in New York, for example, I just recently signed with Gopī-jana-vallabha Prabhu the papers on the farm. I signed conjointly with him on the farm because the officers had to sign, and we just recently had a thing in New York, ISKCON, Los Angeles, New York.

Srila Prabhupāda: No, no, "sign" another thing. That I have signed, many.

Rūpānuga: So that's all right.

Srila Prabhupāda: The one thing is that GBC is wandering. If the checks are to be signed, then where is the GBC?

Rūpānuga: There's no account, no GBC account.

Srila Prabhupāda: The... The money matters should be dealt with the president, secretary and the treasurer, three men. Out of three, two should sign. And GBC's business is to see that things are going on, money matters. That's all. GBC is not supposed to deal directly. He has to inspect. That's all.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So I can cross this...

Srila Prabhupāda: Just like... But the thing is, if the GBC and the president is the same man, that is not good. That is not good. The president should be separate. So the president, treasurer and secretary, they will deal directly, and GBC should inspect book, account, that it is done very nicely. That's all. You can question, "Why you have done this?" That's nice. Otherwise, in the..., it will be difficult to manage.

Rūpānuga: Yes. We don't want to become entangled in that money.

Srila Prabhupāda: Ah!

Rūpānuga: We don't want to become entangled in that money.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: What controls? What controls in the matter of money then?

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Who has control of the money?

Srila Prabhupāda: Control means if there is vigilant, I mean to say, examination, inspection, then there is control of money.

Madhudviṣa: Well, let's say someone gives the temple president some money, and he puts in an account with his name and the treasurer's name, and they both conspire and take the money. Then there's no...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can do also.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Anyway...

Madhudviṣa: Yes, but...

Srila Prabhupāda: GBC can do also.

Madhudviṣa: But isn't the GBC supposed to be more trusted than the temple president?

Srila Prabhupāda: Then everyone can do, who has got the...

Bhagavān: The BBT trustees did it.

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: The BBT trustees also did it. They took unsanctioned loan from the BBT.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what about in a case like myself. I'm a sannyāsī, and I have a traveling saṅkīrtana party. So can I handle that money?

Srila Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm a sannyāsī with a travelling preaching party. So I have no... Because I am personally seeing to the money, tbere's no debt on that party. Is that all right?

Srila Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC. (laughter) Best thing is that don't keep money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I have no money in my name.

Srila Prabhupāda: Anyway, you don't... You spend the necessary expenditure, and balance money, you give whatever you like.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, yeah. We're doing... I meant to say...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda is...

Srila Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī is collecting and spending.

Atreya Ṛṣi: There you have a function of, more or less of a president, as well as the GBC, in that party.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Which is... In that case, it has to have GBC approval.

Srila Prabhupāda: So...

Jayatīrtha: So we can adjourn for lunch and...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Till next we meet again.

Jayatīrtha: So the rest of these things we can discuss in...

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes.

Jayatīrtha: ...separate meeting.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. You can...

Rūpānuga: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (all offer obeisances)

Srila Prabhupāda: (aside:) Oh, he's not... He did not come.

Paramahaṁsa: No, they went and told him to come and he said, "I'm just now coming." (end)