Dialectical Spiritualism: Rene Descartes, Part 3

BY: SUN STAFF - 25.1 2017

Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from  Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

V – RATIONALISM 
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)

Syamasundara dasa: The fourth part of Cartesian methodology involves taking into account the most detailed points and making sure that nothing is omitted.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is knowledge. For instance, we are considering the details when we consider the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourselves.

Syamasundara dasa: And we can place everything in the scheme of Krsna's creation?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna says aham sarvasya prabhavah. "I am the origin of all." (Bg. 10.8) Krsna says that He is the bija, the seed or soul, the spiritual spark of all living entities.

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes also suggested rules of conduct which everyone should follow. He felt that we should obey the laws and customs of our nation, religious faith, and family tradition, and should avoid extreme behavior.

Srila Prabhupada: That is a good proposal. Actually, family tradition is respected in Vedic civilization. In Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna argues:

kula-ksaye pranasyanti 
kula-dharmah sanatanah 
dharme naste kulam krtsnam 
adharmo'bhibhavaty uta

"With the destruction of dynasty, the eternal family tradition is vanquished, and thus the rest of the family becomes involved in irreligious practice. " (Bg. 1. 39) This means that Arjuna was respecting family tradition, but Krsna pointed out that this consideration was material. It really has no spiritual value. Therefore Krsna chastised Arjuna, telling him that he was situated on the material platform. Arjuna was lamenting over things for which a learned man does not lament. So, perhaps Descartes made these propositions for ordinary men, but they are not for those who are highly elevated or spiritually advanced.

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes considered these practical rules for daily conduct. He also believed that we should stand by the convictions we have formed and be resolute in the course of action we have chosen.

Srila Prabhupada: This could also be a dog's obstinacy. However, if our final conclusion is true, then this obstinacy is nice. But if we have not reached the final goal, the Absolute Truth, such obstinacy is an impediment to advancement. This should not be generally applied because in the neophyte stage, we must be flexible. In the advanced stage, when we are firmly situated in the truth, it is, of course, good to stand by our convictions. That is determination. For instance, we have understood that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one can change us in this conviction. In the Christian system, they say that only Jesus Christ can help one go back to Godhead. That was meant for those whom Jesus Christ instructed because Jesus Christ saw that if the people left him, they would go to ruination. He saw that these inferior people had to stick to him in order to progress. Lord Buddha rejected the Vedas, but this does not mean that Vedic authority is diminished. The men to whom he spoke were not able to understand the authority of the Vedas, and they were misusing the Vedic rituals. This is all relative truth, but Absolute Truth is different. Relative truth is within Absolute Truth, but Absolute Truth is independent of relative truth.

Syamasundara dasa: According to Descartes, we should adapt ourselves and our ambitions to our environment and fortune, instead of defying them. In other words, we should be satisfied with what we have and utilize it to the best of our ability.

Srila Prabhupada: That is nice. In Vedic civilization, for instance, there is no great endeavor for economic development. In India, you will still find villagers satisfied with whatever they have. There are even street sweepers who are great devotees. After they work, they bathe, put on tilaka, and sit down to chant and worship the Deity. Why should we be unnecessarily ambitious? Better to be satisfied.

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes also believed that we should carefully choose the life work which is best for our personal selves.

Srila Prabhupada: Well, if you are given that freedom, a drunkard will say that the best thing is to drink and sleep. Everyone has his own program, which he thinks is the best. So who will judge what is best? According to Vivekananda's philosophy, whatever philosophy you select is all right. That is nonsense.

Hayagriva dasa: In the same Meditations on First Philosophy, Descartes writes: "It is not in truth an imperfection in God that He has given me the freedom of assenting or not assenting to things of which He has not placed a clear and distinct knowledge in my understanding. On the other hand, it is an imperfection in me that I do not use this freedom right "

But then, why doesn't God give us the understanding by which we can choose properly in all cases? Why can't we have free will and at the same time infallible judgement?

Srila Prabhupada: Free will means that you can act wrongly. Unless there is a chance of your acting properly or improperly, there is no question of free will. If I only act in one way, I have no freedom. We have freedom because we can sometimes act improperly.

Hayagriva dasa: In other words, freedom means that a man may know better, yet still act wrongly?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is free will: the freedom to misuse free will. A thief may know that stealing is bad, yet he steals. That is his free will in action. He cannot check his greed, despite his knowing that he is acting improperly and that he will be punished. He knows all the repercussions that result from stealing, yet he steals and misuses his free will. So unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.

Hayagriva dasa: In the Meditations, Descartes maintains that when one does not know God, he really has no perfect knowledge of anything, and when he knows God, he knows everything else.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, and knowledge of God means following the instructions of God. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna imparts the most confidential knowledge to Arjuna, but it is ultimately up to Arjuna to accept it or reject it. At the conclusion of Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells him:

iti te jhanam akhyatam 
guhyad guhyataram may a 
vimrsyaitad asesena 
yathecchasi tatha kuru

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do." (Bg. 18.63) This is free will. It depends on the individual whether to act according to the instructions of God or according to his own whims and sensual inclinations.

Hayagriva dasa: Descartes further writes: "I see that the certainty in truth of all knowledge depends on knowledge of the true God, and that before I knew Him I could have no perfect knowledge of any other thing. And now that I know Him, I have the means of acquiring a perfect knowledge of innumerable things" Descartes goes on to conclude that since God is all good, He would not deceive him in matters pertaining to the Godhead.

Srila Prabhupada: If he follows God's instructions and has real knowledge of God, he will never be misled, but if he selects a false God, or if he has not met the real God, he is subject to being misled. To save him from this danger, God imparts instructions in Bhagavad-gita. Whoever follows these instructions will be perfect. If we receive knowledge of the soul from God, there is no chance in being mistaken. As soon as we think in our own way, we are subject to error because we are imperfect and finite. Krsna precisely says that the soul is within the body, and if we accept this, we can immediately understand that the soul is different from the body. Krsna says that the owner of the body is the soul within the body, and immediately the false impression that one is the body, which is a fool's conclusion, should be eradicated. The light is there, but those who do not accept it prefer to live as fools and speculate.

Syamasundara dasa: It was Descartes's contention that the most perfect and highest emotion is intellectual love of God.

Srila Prabhupada: That is also confirmed in Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says that the jhani-bhakta, the intelligent bhakta, is very dear to Him.

tesam jhanl nitya-yukta 
eka-bhaktir visisyate 
priyo hi jhanino' tyartham
aham sa ca mama priyah

"Of these, the wise one who is in full knowledge in union with Me through pure devotional service is the best. For I am very dear to him, and he is dear to Me." (Bg. 7.17) An unintelligent devotee may accept the principles today, and leave tomorrow. A person who accepts the Krsna conscious philosophy intelligently is very rare. We should not accept it by sentiment, but by intelligence.

Syamasundara dasa: For Descartes, real happiness arises from consciousness of perfection.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that consciousness is Krsna consciousness, the awareness that God is the supreme and that I am His eternal servant. This consciousness is happiness, and it is confirmed by Bhagavad-gita. When Dhruva Maharaja was offered all the riches in the world by Kuvera, the treasurer of the demigods, he said, "Please benedict me so that I may have unflinching faith in the lotus feet of Krsna." That is proper intelligence. Similarly, when Prahlada Maharaja was offered whatever he wanted by Lord Nrsimhadeva, he said, "What should I ask from You? My father was a great materialist, so great that the demigods were afraid of his anger, yet You have finished him in one second. What then is the value of this material power and opulence? Please engage me in the service of Your servants. That is all I want."

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes maintains that a man is virtuous insofar as his reason controls his passion.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, if one can control his passions somehow or other, he is freed from many troubles.

visaya vinivartante 
niraharasya dehinah 
rasa-varjam raso'py asya
param drstva nivartate

"The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness." (Bg. 2.59) People are suffering due to their passionate activities. Therefore there are many Vedic rules and regulations governing action. If we can subdue our passionate impulses, we can save ourselves a great deal of trouble. Due to passion, one becomes a drunkard, engages in illicit sex, gambles, and acts unreasonably. If one can check his passion by reason, he can save himself from the greatest danger.