Dialectical Spiritualism: Benedict Spinoza, Part 4

BY: SUN STAFF - 13.2 2017

Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from  Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

V – RATIONALISM 
Benedict Spinoza (1632 - 1677)

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza says that imperfection or error arises from a partial view of the whole. They are not viewed under the aspect of the eternal.

Srila Prabhupada: In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says that when the material energy is wound up, it again enters into Him. In the material world, everything is temporary, and everything will eventually be annihilated.

sarva-bhutani kaunteya 
prakrtith yanti mamikam 
kalpa-ksaye punas tani 
kalpadau visrjamy aham

"0 son of KuntI, at the end of the millennium, every material manifestation enters into My nature, and at the beginning of another millennium, by My potency I again create." (Bg. 9.7) This body will eventually catch some disease, and there will be some so-called imperfection. You cannot consider that disease or imperfection is not in perfect order. This cosmic manifestation is created by Lord Brahma, maintained by Lord Visnu, and annihilated by Lord Siva. There is perfect order here, and this annihilation is also perfect. Thus in a larger sense you can also say that when the body grows old, catches some disease, and dies, these events are also in perfect order. From one point of view, we may see birth, old age, disease and death as imperfections, but actually they are in perfect order. In order to fulfill the whole plan, there must be some disease, or some destruction. We cannot call this imperfection. The plan of destruction is there from the beginning, and that plan is perfect.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza says that we err because we cannot see the whole.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, the mistake is also in perfect order. For instance, it was the plan of Krsna that so many warriors die on the battlefield of Kuruksetra. That was all in perfect order because it was all planned by God. Paras ya saktir vividhaiva sruyate (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8). The Vedas say that the energies of the Lord are multifarious, and just as God is perfect, His energies are also perfect.

Syamasundara dasa: For Spinoza, evil is due to ignorance, an inability to see reality in its entirety, which is all good because it is God.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, evil is due to ignorance. That is a fact. In a higher sense, there is no evil. Ignorance may be considered the cause of evil.

Hayagriva dasa: In his Ethics, Spinoza writes: "Properly speaking, God loves no one and hates no one; for God is not affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow, and consequently, He neither loves nor hates anyone."

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, and therefore He is called atmarama. Being complete in Himself, He doesn't require anything from anyone. However, He states in Bhagavad-gita:

patrarh pus pain phalafn toy am 
yo me bhaktya prayacchati 
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam 
asnami prayatatmanah

"If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit, or water, I will accept it." (Bg. 9.26) It is not for God's benefit that He accepts the offering of His devotee; rather, it is for the devotee's benefit to offer something out of love so that his love for God will develop. If we are decorated, our reflection in the mirror is automatically decorated. If we are God's reflections, we also become decorated if God is decorated.

Hayagriva dasa: When Krsna destroys demons, does He do so without passion or hatred?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. He kills demons for their benefit.

Hayagriva dasa: Spinoza writes: "No sorrow can exist with the accompanying idea of God. No one can hate God."

Srila Prabhupada: By nature, God is always full of pleasure. He is sac-cid-ananda. He is the very source of pleasure. When Krsna dances with the gopis. He appears very pleasing, and when He kills a demon, He appears very pleasing also. It is not that He is morose when He destroys a demon. He knows that He is not killing the demon, but awarding him salvation.

Hayagriva dasa: What about the contention that no one can hate God? What of Krsna and others?

Srila Prabhupada: Hatred of God is demoniac. Naturally, the living entity is in love with God, and he certainly should love God, but when he is in maya, he considers himself separate from God. Instead of loving Him, he begins to consider God a competitor and hindrance to sense gratification. It is then that he thinks of avoiding God, or killing Him. The living entity then thinks, "I will become an absolute sense gratifier." In this way, he becomes demoniac.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza defines the supreme virtue to be understanding God.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says:

bahunath janmanam ante 
jhanavan mam prapadyate 
vasudevah sarvam iti 
sa mahatma sudurlabhah

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all there is. Such a great soul is very rare." (Bg. 7.19) Unless we come to that point, our knowledge is necessarily imperfect.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza's idea of understanding God is understanding nature. This is because he believes that God reveals Himself in nature.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, just as in order to understand the sun, we have to understand the sunshine. If we study nature, daiva-sakti, we can get some idea of God. Those who are just beginning to understand God are nature worshippers. They cannot go directly to God. The study of nature is the first stage of understanding God.