Dialectical Spiritualism: Gottfried von Leibnitz, Part 6

BY: SUN STAFF - 27.2 2017

Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from  Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

V – RATIONALISM 
Gottfried von Leibnitz (1646 - 1716)

Syamasundara dasa: Leibnitz believes that God creates the principle of pre-established harmony, that He sets the two clocks in motion and synchronizes them. The body is acting, but the soul is independent. It is not really affected by the body.

Srila Prabhupada: We also agree to that, but why use the example of clocks? Why not analyze the relationship between the body and the soul? You cannot consider them separately, because they are combined. The fallacy of this analogy is that two individual clocks are not combined at any point.

Syamasundara dasa: The common point is their synchronization.

Srila Prabhupada: But eventually one clock will go faster than the other. You cannot consider the body and soul as completely separate entities working independent of one another. It is stated in the Vedic sastras that the soul is the master of the body; therefore you cannot say that the body is working independently. If I tell my body to place this hand here, my hand will move to this spot. It is not that suddenly my hand moves without my desire.

Syamasundara dasa: Leibnitz would say that the act of your desiring and the act of the hand moving are simultaneous but separate.

Srila Prabhupada: In Sanskrit, this argument is called kakataliyanyaya. Once, when a crow flew into a tal tree, the fruit on that tree immediately fell to the ground. One observer said that the crow lighted on the tree first, and then the fruit fell, and the other observer said that the fruit fell before the crow could light. This kind of argument has no value. We say that if Krsna so desires, a stone can float on the water, despite the law of gravitation. Although the law of gravitation is working here, there are so many huge planets floating in space. All these laws act according to Krsna's desire. By the law of gravitation, all these planets would have fallen into the causal ocean and hit the Garbhodakasayivisnu in the head because He is lying on that ocean. But by His order all these planets are floating in space. Similarly, if God so desires, a rock may fall into the water, but the water will not give way. The rock will simply float. Since God is the ultimate monad, this is possible. Whatever God wills will come into effect.

Syamasundara dasa: Leibnitz admits that the monads are spiritual in nature and therefore immortal.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we agree to that. Both Krsna and the living entity are spiritual. Ultimately, everything is spiritual because everything is Krsna's energy. If Krsna is the original cause, matter can be changed into spirit, and spirit into matter. Electricity may be used to heat or to cool, but in either case, the original energy is electricity. Similarly, the original cause is Krsna; therefore He has the power to change matter into spirit, or spirit into matter.

Syamasundara dasa: He states that unlike the other monads, God is absolute necessity and eternal truth, and He is governed by the law of contradiction. That is to say, it is impossible to conceive of no God.

Srila Prabhupada: The atheists say that there is no God, although God is there. Unless God is there, where is the idea of God coming from? The atheist refuses to accept God. Similarly, the impersonalists refuse to accept a Supreme Personality of Godhead. Unless the idea of personality is there, how can they consider God to be impersonal? All this is due to frustration.

Hayagriva dasa: Leibnitz pictures a city of God very much like that of Augustine. He writes: "God is the monarch of the most perfect republic composed of all the spirits, and the happiness of this city of God is His principal purpose."

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. If everyone becomes Krsna conscious and acts according to the instructions of Krsna, this hellish world will become the city of God.

Hayagriva dasa: Leibnitz further writes: "We must not therefore doubt that God so ordained everything that spirits not only shall live forever, because this is unavoidable, but that they shall also preserve forever their moral quality, so that His city may never lose a person."

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, this is Vaikuntha consciousness. As stated in Bhagavad-gita:

avyakto'ksara ity uktas 
tarn ahuh paramam gatim 
yam prapya na nivartante 
tad dhama paramam mama

"That supreme abode is called unmanifested and infallible, and it is the supreme destination. When one goes there, he never comes back. That is My supreme abode." (Bg. 8.21) That spiritual sky, or city of God, is well known to Vedic students.

Hayagriva dasa: Leibnitz did not believe that the city of God is divorced from the natural world. In Monadology, he writes: "The assembly of all spirits must compose the city of God, that is, the most perfect state possible and of the most perfect of monarchs [God]. This city of God, this truly universal monarchy, is a moral world within the natural world, and the highest and most divine of the works of God."

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, and we can realize this city immediately if we come to the proper consciousness that this planet does not belong to any particular nation but to God Himself. If people accept this principle, the entire world will become the city of God. Presently, the United Nations is attempting to settle all the problems of the world, but the leaders themselves have an animalistic mentality. They are thinking, "I am this body, I am American, or Indian, or whatever. " People must give up these designations and understand their real identity as part and parcel of God. The entire planet belongs to God. We are His sons, and it is possible for us to live peacefully understanding that our Father is supplying us everything. If there is scarcity, it is due to improper distribution. If everyone abides by the orders of God, and everything produced is divided among the sons of God, there no question of scarcity. Since people are denying the actual fact that everything belongs to God, and since they are hoarding goods, there is scarcity. If people want to remain in animal consciousness, they will continue to suffer. Once they come to Krsna consciousness, they will realize the city of God, even within this material world.

Syamasundara dasa: Leibnitz also states that the world could have been otherwise if God so desired, but that He chose this particular arrangement as the best possible.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, God can do as He likes, but this world was not exactly planned by God. It is given to the living entities who want to imitate God. The plan is shaped according to the desires of the living entities who want to lord it over material nature. This is not God's plan. This material world is like a prison supported by the government because there are criminals. It is God's plan that all the living entities in the material world give up their striving and return home, back to Godhead.

Syamasundara dasa: But from the standpoint of the ingredients of this world, is this the best possible world?

Srila Prabhupada: The spiritual world is the best possible world. This planet earth is not a very good planet; there are many other planets even in the material world thousands of times better. The higher you go in the planetary systems, the more comforts and amenities you find. The next planetary system is a thousand times superior to this one, and the planetary system above that is a thousand times superior still. In Brahmaloka, the highest planet, twelve hours of Brahma's day are beyond our comprehension.

Syamasundara dasa: Leibnitz accepts the conditions of this material world as being the best we can hope for, the best of a bad bargain.

Srila Prabhupada: But Bhagavad-gita states that this is a place of misery:

abrahma-bhuvanal lokah 
punar avartino'rjuna 
mam upetya tu kaunteya 
punar janma na vidyate

"From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, 0 son of Kunti, never takes birth again." (Bg. 8.16) This place is meant for suffering. We cannot stay here for very long, even if we agree to stay in such an uncomfortable situation. We have to change our body and go to a higher or lower situation. On the whole, material life is miserable. There is no question of happiness.

Syamasundara dasa: He also states that because there is more good than evil in this world, the creation of this world is justified.

Srila Prabhupada: Well, there is good and evil according to our angle of vision. A devotee sees this material world as good. In the material world, people are always complaining and are in a distressed condition, but a devotee sees that there is really no distressed condition. Everything is happiness because he lives with Krsna. Because he dovetails everything with Krsna, including himself, for him there is no misery.

Syamasundara dasa: He also says that if the world had not been worth creating, God would not have created it. The fact that He created it makes it worth creating.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is stated in the Vedas:

om purnam adah purnam idam 
purnat purnam udacyate 
purnasya purnam adaya 
purnam evavasisyate

"The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance." (Isopanisad, Invocation) The creator is complete, and the creation is also complete. Nothing incomplete can be created by the complete. In that sense, everything that is wanted in this world is here. The arrangement is complete.