Dialectical Spiritualism: Benedict Spinoza, Part 5

BY: SUN STAFF - 14.2 2017

Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from  Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

V – RATIONALISM 
Benedict Spinoza (1632 - 1677)

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza stresses the importance of the intellect, which allows a man to understand the laws of his own personality and thereby control his emotions.

Srila Prabhupada: What does he mean by the emotions?

Syamasundara dasa: Acting emotionally means acting instinctively by one's senses without intelligent consideration.

Srila Prabhupada: A madman acts according to his emotions. But what is the source of these emotions? Unless there are emotions in the whole substance, how can emotions exist? There must be emotions in the whole.

The substance is the origin, and therefore emotion is a category. Unless emotions are already there in the substance, how can they be manifest? How can you neglect your emotions? If emotions exist in the substance, they have some purpose. Why is he trying to negate his emotions?

Syamasundara dasa: He thinks that emotions will only lead one to error.

Srila Prabhupada: Whatever the case, emotions are concomitant factors in the substance. Every madman also has a mind just as a sane man, but the sane man does not commit mistakes because his mind is in order. Similarly, when emotions are not in order, they lead to trouble, but when emotions are in order, they serve a purpose and are proper. Spinoza does not know this?

Syamasundara dasa: He claims that the intelligence can direct the emotions.

Srila Prabhupada: Love of God is an emotion. One may cry in the perfectional stage of devotional service. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu threw Himself into the ocean, that was an emotional act, but that was also a perfect act. According to his emotions, Caitanya Mahaprabhu was considering one moment to be like a yuga, like forty-three million years. This was because He was feeling separation from Krsna. When we feel separation from Govinda, Krsna, our emotions are in perfect order. That is the perfection of life. However, when the emotions are misused, that is maya.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza believes that by nourishing our intelligence, we can will things accordingly. First of all, our will should be subordinate to our intelligence.

Srila Prabhupada: It is already subordinate to our intelligence.

Syamasundara dasa: But in a madman, is it not reversed?

Srila Prabhupada: A madman actually loses his intelligence. He thinks wildly. This is due to derangement, to a loss of intelligence.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza says that God's intelligence controls His will.

Srila Prabhupada: That is a different thing. In God, there is no such distinction. There is no distinction between God's body, soul, mind, and intelligence. In Him, everything is absolute. You cannot say that this is God's intelligence, or that this is God's mind. If you make these distinctions, how can you say that God is absolute? In the relative material world, there are such distinctions. We say that this is the intelligence, this is the mind, this is the soul, and so on, but in the spiritual world, there are no such distinctions. Everything is spirit.

Syamasundara dasa: For Spinoza, nature and God are one, and the moral and the natural are the same.

Srila Prabhupada: Sexual desire is a part of nature. Why is it sometimes called immoral?

Syamasundara dasa: It is immoral when it is unnatural.

Srila Prabhupada: Then we must distinguish between what is natural and unnatural. Whatever is done in God's service is natural and moral, and whatever is not done in His service is unnatural and immoral. Everything in nature is for the satisfaction of God. God has created this flower, and this flower should therefore be employed in God's service. That is moral. As soon as you take this flower for your own sense enjoyment, that is immoral.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza states that man should act for his own self-preservation because this is a natural law.

Srila Prabhupada: All preservation depends on God; therefore self-preservation means surrendering to God. A child can preserve himself by surrendering to his parents' will, but if he acts independently, he may be in trouble. If we do not surrender to God, there is no question of preservation. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says:

sarva-karmany api sada 
kurvano mad-vyapasrayah 
mat-prasadad avapnoti 
sasvatarh padam avyayam

"Though engaged in all kinds of activities, My devotee, under My protection, reaches the eternal and imperishable abode by My grace." (Bg. 18.56) Krsna tells Arjuna to surrender unto Him. "I will give you all protection." Without Krsna, we can not protect ourselves. When Lord Ramacandra wanted to kill Ravana, no one could preserve him, not even Lord Siva or Goddess Durga. Although there was a huge arrangement for the slaughter of the Pandavas, no one could kill them because they were protected by Krsna. Self-preservation means taking shelter of Krsna and depending on Him. Rakhe krsna mareke mare krsna rakheke. "If Krsna protects one, who can kill him? And if Krsna wants to kill one, who can protect him?" Just surrender unto Krsna, and you will never be destroyed. That is self-preservation. Krsna tells Arjuna: kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. "0 son of Kuntl, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." (Bg. 9.31).

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza believes that the more we understand reality, the more we understand God.

Srila Prabhupada: This is because God is reality, and forgetfulness of God is illusion. Illusion is also God, but in illusion we forget God; therefore it is not real. Sunshine and darkness are both reality because they exist side by side. Wherever there is light, there is also shadow. How can we say that the shadow is not reality? It is maya, but because maya attacks the individual soul, Krsna is forgotten. In that sense, illusion or the unreal is also reality.

Syamasundara dasa: But in illusion we forget the reality, the light.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. But this is so-called illusion. It is darkness, the atmosphere in which Krsna is forgotten. Maya is the shadow of darkness, yet even if we come under the shadow of darkness, reality remains. That atmosphere of the unreal is existing side by side with the real. Krsna states, "Maya is Mine." (Bg. 9.10) It is created by God; therefore how can it be unreal? Krsna is reality, and everything dovetailed to Krsna is reality. Therefore maya, or the unreal, is also Krsna. However, when we are in Krsna consciousness, we are situated in reality. This material world is called the unreal, but if we are Krsna conscious, there is nothing unreal.

Syamasundara dasa: Because there is no forgetfulness?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As long as you are engaged in the service of Krsna, there is nothing unreal for you.

Syamasundara dasa: Spinoza also believed that man, by subordinating his spirit to natural necessity, finds perfect peace.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that natural necessity means surrender unto Krsna. Krsna is the Supersoul, and naturally if I surrender unto Him, I will find perfect peace.

tam eva saranam gaccha 
sarva-bhavena bharata 
tat prasadat pararh santim 
sthanam prapsyasi sasvatam

"0 scion of Bharata, surrender unto Him utterly. By His grace you will attain transcendental peace and the supreme and eternal abode." {Bg. 18.62)

Bhaktivedanta Book Trust